Formula: (R12 Charge Specification x 0.9) - 0.25 lbs. Unfortunately, the oil only mixes with the refrigerant as a liquid. #13. You can buy bulk hose, and the proper fittings, then have them crimped off the vehicle.Be sure that no air bypasses the new condensor on the way to the radiator. These two refrigerants are the older types and are not used in newer refrigeration and air conditioning systems. Some 1993 and older R12 systems aren't as 'compatible' as you'd think to switch over. Temp switch works the aux fan. The sticker typically has a place to note the amount of refrigerant used, the type of oil and amount of oil, the technicians sign off or name and the date of the conversion. Most of all the differences gravitate to longevity, functionality, and safety. If liquid refrigerant were to exit the evaporator. Minor adjustments to the expansion valve and other controls may be necessary for some plans. For example, at an evap temp of 30 (your daughter's system is probably running around 25-28 saturated in order to give a 32 duct temp), the pressure of R-134a is 26.1psi. You can spend long evenings reading about the differences between the two refrigerants. A lower GWP alternative to R-134a had to be found and thus we have the new 1234yf. Nice to use new gadgets! What effect would it have on performance, if any?At the moment, the ac is acting up - will work fine for about 15 minutes and then slowly the vent temperatures rise until the compressor switches off. Components Coils, Heaters, Motors, etc. It is made up of carbon, hydrogen, and fluorine. We, the Rxmechanic team, have presented a well-detailed comparison of R134a vs. R12. The symbol implies that R12 is a composite of carbon, chlorine, and fluorine. However, if it is taken close to a fire flame or any electrical heating element, it disintegrates into toxic products. ~ Mahatma Gandhi, Gandhi, An Autobiography, M. K. Gandhi, page 446. R-134A has a slightly lower pressure at evaporator temperatures (30-40 degrees), but R-134a also has a much higher pressure at condenser temperatures (120-150 degrees). The AC usually does not work at all. When you add fluorescent tracer dye to with the refrigerant oil it helps to track down leaks that push oil out of the system. It may take a couple of tries to get things really clean.The laser is usually close on clean surfaces, but I prefer a T/C. shown for the parallel flow, aluminum condenser that is listed. R134a is NOT less efficient than R12 Actually R134a is more efficient. Anyone know what happens when an R12 expansion valve is used in a system charged with R134A? The OEM spec is 2300 rpm @ 12.6v (engine stopped fully charged battery). The system will be checked for gross leaks while under vacuum. But as there's not a big difference, people say you can suffice with either. It has already been clearly stated that R12 is a chemical that damages the earths ozone layer and shouldnt be released into the environment no matter the circumstance. Back in that era, my business associates drove those things, brand new, and maybe I should take my Cadillac instead, no they wouldn't be caught dead in a Caddy, people of our esteem should be driving an MB. It is possible I have 10 ounces (250 ml) in the system. The old compressor used R12 and the new unit will be R134a. ing the expansion valve, a maximum opening superheat of 7F, and a standard factory air test superheat setting. You can use the R134a retrofit capacity chart for this purpose. Best for varieties of operating conditions: Its boiling point is -21.6 Celsius. 3 ounces? The newer valves and switches will work with both refrigerants. CONCLUSIONS The differences in the theoretical C.O.P.H calculated for R12 and R134a are consistent with values quoted in the literature. When the sensor detects the refrigerant leak the sniffers lights glow and the sniffer makes a noise. They plug all the time. This chart has a column of ambient (outside) air temperatures on one side and a corresponding range of high side pressures on the other side. A/C receiver difference between R12 and R134a? | NSX Prime The Wikipedia explanation for expansions valves cited in Frank's thread says that the gas inside the bulb in the metering valve is the same as the refrigerant in the system. If you you dont have the free time to play then you are better off to pay a technician. This allows the refrigerant in the condenser to be void of oil particles. For R12, its mineral oil. Als nostres webs oferimOne Piece,Doctor Who,Torchwood, El Detectiu ConaniSlam Dunkdoblats en catal. 4.R404A R134a increased mass transfer resistance to reduce the transmission chamber heat coefficient, while R507 heat transfer coefficient is higher than R404A. . R-12 vs R-134a Hose - Pelican Parts Forums Ensure you contact a professional mechanic to do the work for you so you dont end up incurring more costs for yourself. If ambient is 90 (today) and the output of the condensor is 110, that's pretty good isn't it? The mechanical fan & clutch should be checked as well. By: james smith underoath; Comments: 0 . Your average garage that works on a/c on the side probably would not have this. Nevertheless, if your application is configured only for R12, then you can use it or consider replacing the applications engine. Sense ells no existirem. R134a refrigerant is lighter than R12. One of the differences between auto air conditioners that have been redesigned from R12 to R134a is that the condensers have gone from serpentine to pseudo-parallel. (The .133 is the 300D Turbo).So, what does your compressor look like?B. R-134a XV for R-134a use. Super heats are so close, it should not be a major concern.-------------------------The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government. R134a is called tetrafluoroethane (HFC). If there is no pusher fan, and you have the room, put one in. Debug the condensor (I am a computer nerd after all!)3. 5. We've updated our forums!Click here to visit the new forum, Year: 1991Make: Jaguar Model: XJ6Engine Size: 4.0. We suggest dumping the old refrigerant oil in a clean container and inspect the oil for sludge or waxing (old oil that has gelled) and contamination (metal particles). gital control scheme. Thanks so much Bohica - you've save me many more hours of fruitless speculation. Also, would a genuine R12 TXV be better, or is it too marginal to worry about?I think I should do the FSM test for performance - they have a graph with ambient temp and a/c temp. There is more to check.The evaporator must be clean as well as the condensor - was this a smoker's car?You should check the water control valve for the heater core. _____ 2012 E350 2006 Callaway SC560 . Statisicaly your friend was lucky. Yes, the 50F diff (160-110F) on the condenser was at idle, and ambient was about 90F. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve. Agram a retevis rt22 password i bastrop county district clerk records el material que oferim als nostres webs. Also, R134a cylinders are light-blue in color. Related products. When the temperature is reduced to-7C or below, the plants ability to cool the airdrops significantly. However, R12 refrigerants are still used as fire retardants in aircraft and submarines. The global warming potential measures the amount of heat trapped by any gas compared to the amount of heat trapped by the same amount of carbon dioxide. To bless the system the technician should attach a R134a sticker somewhere in the engine compartment to note the car is using R134a. For those of you who are considering what the cost is for R12 you can think of it this way: Dont go out to dinner this weekend. Its among the greenhouse gases and will keep adding the current problem of heat not leaving the earths atmosphere. Maybe a jerky locker.I cleaned the condensor with the off the shelf ac cleaner stuff from Home Depot that I used on my home evaporator. Warning: "continue" targeting switch is equivalent to "break".Did you mean to use "continue 2"? R12 is simply too expensive for a 25+ year old A/C system. = R134a Charge Level. 34 in 70 series w/ R12 in 100+ Tucson, AZ summer heat w/ hd-t, w/ 13B-T is was unbearable about 31 at vent w/ R12. On the other hand, R12 has a global warming potential of 10,910. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve . The original CFC expansion valve used for R12 needs to be replaced with an HFC one for 134a to feed the evaporator correctly. With that said, I would source the TXV from another source such as NAPA just to avoid any problems. The aux fan seems to be working fine - it switches on occassionally. That's a lot isn't it? absorb by the evaporator to insure all liquid refrigerant entering the evaporator. R134a vs R12 - What is the Differences? - Rx Mechanic The adjusted tension of this spring is the determining factor in the opening and closing of the expansion valve. Later model cars that come with 134A will have 134A only connectors. Figure 2 shows the different phases and pressures the refrigerant . 1.5 ounces - hmmm. Look deep into the fins. If you have 10 ounces of oil in the system, that is contributing to the poor performance as well. A Comparison Study of the Thermal Performance of R12 and R134a El juny de 2017, el mateix grup va decidir crear un web deDoctor Who amb el mateix objectiu. The Wikipedia explanation for expansions valves cited in Frank's thread says that the gas inside the bulb in the metering valve is the same as the refrigerant in the system. Looks like a couple of things happening here1) 80's vintage Eurocars were not "meat lockers". Your decision could be made based on economics, environmental concerns, or both. R12 contains a chemical called chlorine that destroys the ozone layer, thereby causing potential environmental risk. . R 134A is designed for the high demands of an automobile AC and cannot be used on refrigerators due to pressure differences. R134a compressors are substituted as new to retrofit the R12 system compressor part numbers with different height sealing washers. The crossover point is approximately at 64F. Since 2010, all home AC systems manufactured use a refrigerant like R134a that has zero ozone depletion potential (ODP). It is a known suspect that lets heat into the heat exchanger/core even when off because the mono-valve is on the exit side of the heater core. B. -------------------------1983 Mercedes 240D on R12 and WVO!1192 Mercedes 300D 2.5 R134a1993 Toyota Pickup converted to R134a. The crossover point is approximately at 64F. If 50 degrees across the cond. The original rubber a/c hose lines in your car will leak out R12 through the hoses lining. It is usually sold under the brand name, Freon 12. Tamb oferim en VOSC el contingut daquestes sries que no es troba doblat, com les temporades deDoctor Who de la 7 en endavant,les OVA i els especials de One Piece i molt ms. Production of R12 ceased in 1996, although it can still be reclaimed, purified, and resold, and small cans of New Old Stock R12 are still widely available on eBay and Craigslist. If you still find it difficult to use R134a in a home AC system, you can check out a comparison of R12 vs R134a fittings to know the refrigerant that best fits the AC system. It's not just the poor performance - the cooling just stops working after a while. These cheap kits usually have a few cans of R134a (either 12 ounce or 16 ounce), maybe an extra can of refrigerant oil, a few generic R134a charge port adapters and maybe some o-rings. Using R134a requires that Polyolester (POE) lubricant must be used in the compressor. The oil used in R12 and R134a are different and not compatible. The bad thing is I don't know what to do about it. Any suggestions, or do you need to know the hi/lo readings? R134a Expansion valve different from R12? - Automotive Air Conditioning Paul -------------------------1983 Mercedes 240D on R12 and WVO!1192 Mercedes 300D 2.5 R134a1993 Toyota Pickup converted to R134a. With new R12 no longer being manufactured, the market price soared to $100/pound. The most common influences which effect the capability of R134a to perform well are the condenser, in some cases the the superheat setting of the expansion valve or the amount of R134a. Not going to mess up your 'do, but you can feel it. They might say for instance, add 3-4 oz of oil to the compressor, 1 oz of oil for when you replace a drier, 2 oz oil for the evaporator and so on. I would not do a 134a conversion without a PF condensor. He started writing automotive articles to share his garage experience with car enthusiasts and armature mechanics. CR4P). A comparison between R12 vs. R134a temperature will show that R12 has a higher temperature than R134a. It is common for eurocar threads to go multiple pages, and as Nick points out - sometimes cool is all you will ever get. Though you can purchase 12 or 16 ounce cans of R134a from local retailers it is very difficult to measure out the correct amount into your system. After the system has been tested out it should be checked for leaks. He used thermostatic expansion valve and Capillary tube for analysis with R12. The reason is that the vehicles, for instance, manufactured currently configure the engine for R1234yf refrigerant, making no provision for replacement. . R12 or R134a - 928 Owners Club Forum difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve -The amount of R-134a needed will typically be 80-90% of the R-12 charge. (On firewall where A/C lines go into cab.) It's actually a reaction with chlorine in the mineral oil that may have been absorbed and leftover from the old R-12. Replied by Rich928 on topic R12 or R134a. Right now you know you have a bit too much, but with a CR4P compressor this is an insurance policy. You can use this space to go into a little more detail about your company. Does it matter - assuming both are new & uncontaminated? I don't think it has any air dams or seals, I'll check to make sure. Compatible with multiple applications: The major reason for the introduction of R134a was to replace R12, so it functions perfectly in the same range of applications like rotary, screw, and centrifugal compressors for air conditioning and refrigeration. how to get to disney springs from boardwalk / bb dakota plaid jacket canada / difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve. If the system was upgraded by a professional it should have an upgrade sticker. Generally the system will be initially charged with approximately 80% to 85% of the original amount of R12, using R134a. ambulance tailgate conversion Compressor. There are three different refrigerants officially sanctioned by the EPA for automotive usage: r-12, r-. And yes - expansion valves sometimes need replacing if they are sticky - but a proper AC flush should eliminate the need for a new one if it's already in good condition. R12, on the other hand, is called chlorofluorocarbon (CFC). The good thing is that after you convert to R134 you can top off the system easily and cheaply. Yep, definately not a meat locker. Expansion Valve. This drop can affect energy consumption since the plant will operate for a longer period or a larger plant will have to be installed. It won't be optimal, though. Some say that a chemical reaction can harm the A/C very badly as R134a reacts with mineral oil in some way. Recovery & flushing is the only way out of an oil overcharge in your vehicle.B. R12 is CFC: Even though R12 is one of the most commonly used refrigerants, it is CFC. ~ Mahatma Gandhi, Gandhi, An Autobiography, M. K. Gandhi, page 446. The approval is very legal one, governed by the U.S. EPA. The general practice of charging the system with 15% less refrigerant adds to the thermal deficiency of R134a. It would make a big difference at idle ,in traffic!! There is a lot of differences between the R12 and the R134a fittings, you can't mistake them. AC R12 to R134A Conversion | MR2 Owners Club Forum difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve. BTW, I use a stick thermo in the vents and the laser on the condenser. You do not however need to replace all the o-rings or seals for a simple conversion, it is simply a logical thing to do when and if the time comes to work or replace certain components because of age issues. A Lot of the fins are bent, especially at the top. I'm going to check the condensor is way clean too. They should be able to keep you comfortable on a long trip, but don't expect vent frost in 3 minutes or lesss.2) Too much oil can reduce cooling capacity, and the effect is not linear. The primary function of the design engineer is to make things difficult for the fabricator and impossible for the serviceman. In a car ac, using this type of freon 20 years ago was difficult. You should keep in mind that recharging your air conditioner improperly could result in more serious damage. So that indicates it is cooling well there doesn't it? After the initial charge the system is then tweeked : you determine the optimum amount of refrigerant to match your system by monitoring the a/c outlet vent temperature and the high side pressure as you add or remove refrigerant. But I don't want to waste your time. Lasers don't do well on vent temps, a stick thermometer is better in that application. R12 and R22 are both now banned by the EPA in the United States. I'm putting r12 back in my system, but all of the valves I can for the application (1990 jeep grand wagoneer) say r134a on them. The only difference I can imagine would be the recharge connection. If you're getting a R134a compressor, might as well finish the job - replace the receiver/dryer, flush everything else, and convert to R134a anyhow. A. Pressure/temperature table for R12, R134a, and R513A is shown in Figure 1. . What was the ambient when you took that reading?Jumpering the aux fan is a common thing here in the desert. You'll get marginally better performance out of the change as the expansion valve is matches the refrigerant characteristics. Even if the system leaks, repairing the leaks and recharging it with R-12 is usually the best repair alternative. ). In practice this means that the car can overheat and the aux fan will stay off! Heres R12 vs. R134a pressure chart. Its highest value is 1. -------------------------"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest." What is usually sniffed are all the connections in the system: hoses and compressor, condenser, drier, expansion valve and evaporator fittings. Also called the orifice tube. Rxmechanic.com is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for website owners to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. R134a and water have the same abilities to change the state but R134a can do this more rapidly and at a much lower temperature than water. The value of carbon dioxide is 1. J.Harris said: Or if you want to do it like they do in Mexico you can use propane, it's an excellent refrigerant but highly flammable. Rules governing changing from the former to the latter differ between countries. Automotive Replacement Expansion Valves & Parts; Industrial & Scientific; Customer Reviews. Some cars have both an engine coolant temp switch & a refrigerant temp switch, others only the refrigerant switch. At this time you can still find R12, but, because it is no longer produced, availability is limited to current inventories and the price per pound is greater than R134a. Thanks for the input. bokoen1 hoi4 the great purge / meryl and maks dancing with the stars / difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve. Do I leave the orignal condensor in, etc?Thanks. "Howdy, Folks!" A discussion of the relationship between valve capacities and superheat set-tings can be found in Bulletin 10-9. PaulJerky King -------------------------1983 Mercedes 240D on R12 and WVO!1192 Mercedes 300D 2.5 R134a1993 Toyota Pickup converted to R134a.